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Of the seven directors, which one directed you? Was it Edmund Goulding, Rene Clair…

“I think it was Edmund Goulding. Robert Cummings was in the sequence. I never saw it.”

It’s the story of a house in London, built in 1804 and the people who lived in it until World War II, when it serves as a public raid shelter until a bomb hits it one night.

“Oh, I see. Sounds very interesting. Did you like it? Really. I wish I’d seen it.”

STAGEDOOR CANTEEN

“Again, a scene. I haven’t seen that, either.”

It’s rather bad.

“What do I do in it, do you remember?”

Not really. It’s the kind of thing where they say “There’s Merle Oberon” and you’re serving doughnuts or washing dishes. Next was FIRST COMES COURAGE directed by Dorothy Arzner.

“She started, but Charles Vidor finished it.”

It didn’t get good reviews.

”I’m sure it didn’t. It was a war story. I was a Norwegian double agent… everyone thought I was pro-Nazi.”

You showed your legs for the first time in THE LODGER.

“I had a cable from Cole Porter who was in New York – a great friend of mine saying “So the lady can also kick.”

How was John Brahm to work with?

“Interesting… Interesting…”

Looked like he was quite a technician.

“Yes, I think he could have gotten better if he’d had better subjects probably. He seemed to have talent.”

The script didn’t give you much of a character at all.

“I had been very ill during that period and I didn’t want to work anymore. I hadn’t worked for a long time, and Zanuck almost forced me into doing this. He said, “You’re so silly. You’ve got to work.” And the war and everything had gotten to me. So I rather blindly took it – I thought also it was less taxing on me because there wasn’t very much to do. But I mean I wouldn’t choose that part, you know.”

It was one of the best of its genre and one of the best things done on Jack the Ripper.

“Yes, they mounted it well.”

DARK WATERS was another kind of mystery. Did they want you on the strength of THE LODGER, do you think?

“No, I think they just wanted me for the part.”

Next the film that gave Perry Como a hit song – A SONG TO REMEMBER.

“There were two hit songs on the hit parade – “Til the End of Time” and “The Polonaise”.”

It gave Jose Iturbi a whole new career. Paul Muni, however, really chewed up the scenery.

“The second days’ work I had was with Muni, and there was a very long scene. It must have lasted six or eight minutes, very long for a film scene. I didn’t know that they’d been having a lot of trouble with Muni, and they were all surprised that he was so pleasant and respectful with me. We rehearsed the scene a few times, a very interesting scene, and the whole thing was done in one shot with the camera moves and everything. But the cameraman hadn’t put in enough film – he wasn’t aware that the entire scene was to be shot – that was an indication of what had gone on before I got on the picture. I really didn’t know that Muni was overacting like he did. I think it spoiled the picture. It was a marvelous picture otherwise, I’d like to get hold of it and re-cut it, editing down Muni’s role, and I think it would go over well today in re-release.”

That film is about ripe for re-release.

“But so ripe that if I had enough money I would make a picture right now about some great musician.”

Next was a William Dieterle film, THIS LOVE OF OURS.

“That’s the Pirandello story. It’s one of the classics – its original name was As it was Before. Better Than Before.”

It didn’t get good reviews.

“I’m sure it didn’t, but do you know that it was the biggest success they’ve ever had in Mexico. Bigger than all the Cantinflas pictures. Well, they like that kind of schmaltzy thing I suppose.”

That was the first of a trio of films Charles Korvin made with you. He was a pretty good actor.

“Well, you know something? He wasn’t a good actor. You see, that’s where you can be fooled on the screen. Maybe it’s also selfish, to be absolutely true, but I don’t like any actor to be picked on when I’m working with them; Dieterle used to pick on Charles Korvin at the beginning of the picture, and say “This man is such a terrible actor.” So I would start taking Charles aside and saying, “Now don’t you listen to him at all. You’re marvelous and you’re going to have the biggest success in this picture, and you’re a good actor.”
In about a week’s time he was being a big actor with me. I’ve had that an awful lot, and it’s so boring.”

Incidentally, what did you think of William Dieterle as a director?

“I wasn’t overly impressed – he had a big name.”

It has been said about Hollywood directors – see if you agree with this – that there were a lot of phonies out there who were lucky phonies… they had very good scripts and very good people. All they had to do was sit there and say “Roll ’em” or “Cut!’ – they really didn’t work with the actors.

“Absolutely. You know, if you really tried to press me, I couldn’t give you two or three whom I think could really take something out of you that you couldn’t give just like that. I’ve always wanted to have some director really bring out things that feel are probably inside. Willie Wyler was a very intelligent man to work with, and we had tremendous rapport. We would look at each other and shake our heads or nod; we would know what it was. And then he would say something very slight. He’s not very coherent, but I think he’s a marvelous director.”

We come to another film not well received critically, RKO’s NIGHT SONG.

“No, it didn’t get especially good reviews, but it didn’t do too badly. A corny little story.”

Then your last with Charles Korvin, BERLIN EXPRESS, it was a war story that received fairly good reviews.

”It did? We shot it in Berlin, right after the war – I was the first woman to get in.”

The location footage was great.

“That was all it had, really. Tourneur was not a good director. Foreign names seem to be some kind of thing over here. I accepted it only to go to Berlin. This was in 1941 and we went in with the army. I couldn’t take a maid or anything – there were just five men and myself. It was so interesting and fascinating that I accepted it blindly. But after three days shooting he was having us walk away from the camera into these various ruins. And, I, who never do this, because I mind my own business – I think a director should know what he’s doing and especially in those days, I wasn’t a producer… Finally I said, “Listen Jacques, this doesn’t make sense to me, they’re paying a fortune to have us over here – you could have had three extras walking with their backs to the camera.” Three days of that!”

That was 1948 – then there were a couple of years when you didn’t work.

“A man I was going to marry was killed in an airplane in front of my eyes – it kind of messed up my life.”

Finally in 1951 you made PARDON MY FRENCH with Paul Henreid.

“It had all the makings of a very good comedy, but I don’t think it worked. I don’t think I even saw it in the end.”

Then Victor Saville directed you in AFFAIR IN MONTE CARLO.

“That was unfortunate, because Victor didn’t turn out to be a good director in that, and I had the choice of director. I remember calling George Cukor and asking him how Victor would be as a director and George said he would be marvelous. The story was Stefan Zweig’s “24 Hours in the Life of a Woman” a very fascinating story about gambling. All the scenery in Monte Carlo and Richard Todd who was a good actor. Every opportunity in the world.”

Next a Spanish film with Francisco Raval.

“Oh yes. TODO ES POSSIBLE EN GRANADA – EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE IN GRANADA. That again was a comedy. It had a big success in Spanish speaking countries. I don’t remember any of the other names in the cast – they were all Spanish stars – we had Antonio the dancer. He makes this dowdy little woman blossom out a bit by getting her to dance when she visits the gypsies. That was one of the highlights.”

Now we have another controversial character coming up in the next film, DESIREE – and that’s Marion Brando.

“Believe it or not, we had the most fantastic relationship. He had such respect for me – for instance, there was one scene which I decided represented the great tragedy in Josephine’s life – that she couldn’t have a child. She goes to see Jean Simmons in this scene and they’re looking over the crib at the baby and in the background are Napoleon and Michael Rennie. It wouldn’t have looked like much to read it as it was in the script, but I felt it was important. When we rehearsed it, they were singing and dancing in the back. I said to the director, “Would you kindly ask them to be quiet because I’m going to play this scene with restrained emotion only the audience would see, not even Jean or the two men” and he said, “Oh, I can’t do anything with him.” This was Henry Koster – can you imagine the director saying that. So I called the assistant director and I said, “Would you please go and ask Mr. Brando if I could play the scene with a little more feeling? The next one was a ‘take’; there was dead silence from the back – I did it in one take and that was it. He was co-operative with me but not with the others. They had a terrible time with him. One of their complaints, there were hundreds, was that he would mumble his lines in the rehearsals, and when the scene came he would scream at them and they wouldn’t know how to take it. If it were a scene where they had to react it might have been a very good idea, really. I found him fantastic. He used to come to my house for dinner and if I said 8:00 he would be there at 8:00, dressed in his blue suit with a tie. I remember he met Noel Coward at my house and they got on very well. Noel was one of my dearest friends.”

DESIREE did fairly well at the box office, but the reviews weren’t too good.

“You know they wanted to give me an Oscar for that. There was a big to-do because it was a vignette, it wasn’t a big role. They wanted to do this as a supporting role, and the idea of a star getting the award for a supporting role was not done. Charlie Brackett, who was the head of the Screen Actors Guild, at the time, told me what was going on and I said, “Please be my guest – forget about it”. I couldn’t care less really, because I find that the great artists of our business have never been recognized or that there’s been a belated recognition. I mean D.W. Griffith. That alone… Miss Garbo. One could go on forever. Charlie Chaplin, finally!.”

You had sort of a cameo role in your next film, DEEP IN MY HEART.

“Originally it was to have been a more interesting part. They were trying to “star” Jose Ferrer in the end, so they cut everything else down. I think they made a mistake because I don’t think he’s star material.”

At Universal, Abner Biberman directed you in THE PIECE OF FEAR.

”It was a crime film. I thought it would turn out well. They told me that Biberman was their great new hope. I ended up not seeing it because I had a feeling. I couldn’t put it all onto him; the whole thing fell apart. He was good with actors but not with the structure.”

Then OF LOVE AND DESIRE in ’63.

“That was ruined because of the Roman Catholic thing. Today it would be mild. It was the story of a woman who was a nymphomaniac, and for her it was a tragedy…”

Today it wouldn’t be such a tragedy…

“Today – a comedy. On top of it her half-brother was in love with her. A little bit of incest, but she didn’t know what it was – why he was so possessive. But you see now, one fault I’ve had all my life is thinking that each person knows his job better than I do, and that I must do mine to the best of my ability and not interfere. Had I at that time asserted myself a bit because I knew what was wrong with it when I saw the cut picture – but I was always too humble about things. I think it’s a fault, a personal failure.”

Wouldn’t a director listen?

“I never tried to get them to listen and I think it was very wrong of me.”

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