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Your first color film was for Korda. OVER THE MOON with Rex Harrison – it was a rather tepid affair.

“Alex was having a lot of financial trouble at the time and he wasn’t there to steer it – the director was a rather weakish person.”

William K. Howard?

“Yes, and it was just a meandering sort of thing. I was worried to death about it even then because I thought, poor Alex, all this money going down the drain and I don’t know what’s coming out. And there again was this same thing about having me; you see they had this contract between them – Alex and Sam – having me for this time, and not having a story; that was again an “Oberon” picture.”

Did you have any ‘say’ in the matter at the time?

“I would have, but I never really wanted to. That’s why it was very difficult for me on INTERVAL… I’m not very good at bossing people around.”

The next year you went in front of the technicolor camera again – this time with Laurence Olivier in THE DIVORCE OF LADY X. How is it Olivier looks so much younger in this film than in WUTHERING HEIGHTS made the following year?

“Well, you know there was a big thing in his life between the two. First he met Vivien, and they went through that. The second thing was that he had come to America to be Garbo’s leading man in QUEEN CHRISTINA and there was a big ‘to do’ in England; I remember the headlines… she didn’t want him; she wanted John Gilbert. It was quite a traumatic experience. Then he went back to England and he made a big success in old Vic. So that was quite a year for him.”

Well, did you notice the difference in him?

“Yes, I did, definitely. I felt he had grown up quite a bit. Also he had the stature of an old Vic actor behind him.”

You worked with Morton Selten once before DIVORCE OF LADY X. How did you find him?

“He was adorable. Did you know he was the illegitimate son or grandson of Queen Victoria? Yes, he looks exactly like the king. He took us home one day to have tea at his house, a tiny little house in London, about four floors, and it was so Victorian. Exactly as it would have been… nothing changed.”

Returning to America you starred in THE COWBOY AND THE LADY for Goldwyn. It has been written that Leo McCarey sold an oral treatment to Sam Goldwyn for $4,000 and Goldwyn went crazy trying to get a script from his writers.

“He had me and he had Gary and the time was coming up. Again starting a picture because of time and the people involved.”

How did you enjoy working with Patsy Kelly?

“Oh, fine. We did some scenes together. Very friendly and funny – I remember her as being very nice. But I don’t have bad memories of anybody. Miriam just made life difficult for everybody, I think. Gary I just adored, and there I think is one of the great underrated actors of the screen. They used to make all those stupid, stupid jokes – the famous one being that he would be lying there with an expression on his face, and the director would say ”Oh it’s marvelous!” and he was asleep. And it’s so stupid because, with Gary, you could see everything he was thinking. And to work with him was fantastic, because every thought was in his eyes.”

So much has been said about WUTHERING HEIGHTS and maybe you’re tired of hearing it by now – David Niven says in his autobiography that Wyler was pretty hard on everyone, and on occasion brought the female leads to tears.

“He’s not right. I think his memory fails him in that, because Willie and I always got on absolutely fantastically. But what happened, and this is the truth of it, is that Larry came back with this chip on his shoulder because Garbo had rejected him, but now he was the big acknowledged Shakespearean actor. He started the picture very ‘big’… it was all for the stage. The make-up was too much, his acting was too much, and after three days there was a big showdown. They made him go into the theatre and look at it and tried to convince him that you don’t do this for the screen – I think it shook him a little. And Larry will tell you, because he’s very intelligent… and only the greatest actor, that’s all. It bothered him, I think, all through the film. And I don’t know, maybe Willie – Willie has this habit sometimes – the only rows we’ve had are when he’s made someone go on and on and on with the same take and I felt it wasn’t necessary. We sometimes had to do fifty takes – I was suffering because many times I had to cry and it would be fifty takes and would dry up after a time.

Do you have any second thoughts on the film?

“Yes, my second thoughts are that it’s a very good film and I’m very grateful to have been in it. I was grateful at the time, but now more so – because of talking to Paulette Goddard who is a very bright woman. This was when I’d given up pictures more or less, for marriage. She said “Do you mind giving up pictures?” I thought at the time and I said “No” and she said, “You can talk, you made WUTHERING HEIGHTS and that stopped me, made me think. So many, the thousands who’ve been extras, the thousands who’ve played bit parts, the thousands who’ve maybe been leading ladies, and the thousands who’ve been ‘stars’, and have never had a part to remember. Paulette is an example, you realize that. They tried very hard to make her a star.

Speaking of Paulette Goddard, how do you feel about Chaplin?

“I did something very important for Charlie. When he was in the 1940’s paternity suit – I had a masseuse who said to me one day, “I know the janitor in the house where this was supposed to have taken place on a certain night – where the child was supposedly conceived. The janitor said that his young woman and this other man, that she was seeing, had a fight. She locked him out of the apartment and there was much noise and attempts to break down doors and she, the janitor, had to remonstrate with them and the young woman let him in, and he stayed there the rest of the night.” So I jumped off the table and I said, “We should tell Charlie this.” I called him and he said, “Oh, Merle, in my hour of gethsemane, you called me.” and I told him the story It made a great difference in the case. I was surprised he never put it in the book. As a person, for me, in my early days in Hollywood, he was the word, what I think ‘friend’ means. If I was stuck with somebody coming to dinner from England or something – I’d call Charlie and say “Charlie, please help me. Send me a print of a film” or “Come to dinner”. He’d come and he’d be so amusing and so marvelous, and then we’d see a picture of his afterwards. I call that a great friend, you know. He gave a luncheon for Bruno and me when I got married, in Vevey. I adore Oona. She’s one of the remarkable women of the world. Really. I mean there is the woman behind the throne. And she stays behind the throne and by god she holds it up. She’s an angel, too. She’s got the sweetness of soul.”

Chaplin’s films aren’t doing well in re-release.

“Do you know, I think that people have forgotten how to laugh today. I think one of the saddest things is that young people don’t laugh nearly as much… I remember myself, I used to be a ball. I used to laugh and sing so much. I remember Emlyn Williams on MEN OF TOMORROW saying, about Joan Gardner he said – we were doing a scene together and they were in between scenes – he said, “If she doesn’t stop humming, and laughing, and giggling, I’m going to strangle her.” and I thought to myself, maybe he means me, too.”

He has been known to have an edge on his dialogue now and then.

“Well, he said it about Joan, but I’m sure it was for me, too, because I’d walk around laughing and humming and everything. Today I don’t see enough young people… mine don’t do that. They seem to think the world is tragic. I still love to laugh.”

Did you find substantial differences between Korda ‘s complex and Hollywood?

“They’re much more efficient in America, I thought. They’re more leisurely in England. Things get done the same way, but getting to them seemed more rapid here.”

In England at the outbreak of World War II you were in one of the first British propaganda films, THE LION HAS WINGS.

“It was a very sad time. I was so depressed – I almost didn’t survive. I had to come here because I was under contract to Sam Goidwyn. Alex and his family made me come because they couldn’t work anymore, and they thought it was unfair for me to be giving up my contract. Alex wouldn’t have been able to pay me… everything was stopped you know.
He went into intelligence. Everything was dismantled; I had a chance to continue my career; they forced me to come here, and it was much worse for me because I suffered so much being away from everybody, reading the newspapers and seeing about the bombing and everything.”

Well, then you came to Warners for…

“What happened was, I came back to Sam and then I found that Sam was scared – I didn’t understand at the time that he was putting his own money into pictures. And thereby hangs a tale which is not very pretty… Sam had to pay me something over a million dollars for a series of pictures, and in the middle of a conversation I began to realize that Sam was worrying about the contract. I said, “Oh, Sam, are you worrying about the contract that we have? Forget it.” I didn’t realize that I owed money to the agent, but I did it. And, oh, Sam burst into tears, and she burst into tears – Mrs. Goldwyn – and “Oh, we will never forget a thing like this. How generous of you.”

She was his right hand.

“Yes, right, left and everything. I went home and called my agent – Myron Selznick – and said “Myron, I told Sam to forget the contract” – I thought Myron was going to have a heart attack. He said “Do you realize how much money you…” I said, “Yes, Myron. If he can’t afford, or whatever… if somebody’s not mad keen for me I don’t want to do it.” And this was after WUTHERING HEIGHTS you realize, and I knew, too, that every studio in town would want to make a picture with me. And now we jump ahead. Last year, when I was collecting all my films for my children, I wrote to Mrs. Goidwyn and asked her if I could buy a 16mm print of WUTHERING HEIGHTS and she wrote back and said NO. Can you believe it? Would you believe such a thing? I saved them over a million dollars. Apart from that, every studio had sold me a print. I’d had no problems until then.”

Your first for Warner Bros. was a remake of ONE WAY PASSAGE entitled TIL WE MEET AGAIN.

“That’s right and I think it’s a beautiful picture.”

It’s unfortunate, but they kept comparing Cathy in WUTHERING HEIGHTS to all your other performances after that.

“It was a different girl entirely – she was a very modern girl.”

Critics have a tendency to do that.

“Yes, I know.”

Then came comedy with the “Lubitsch Touch” – THAT UNCERTAIN FEELING.

“That was probably the happiest picture I ever made, because Lubitsch was such a funny man. Such a darling man. He played the piano between every take and there would be laughs. Then I’d always ask him to do the scene for me before I did it only to have a laugh. I remember when Alex came from England and he saw the picture, I said, “Alex, how is it, and how am I?” and he said “Oh, fine. You played it beautifully, like a little Jewish girl.” Apparently Ernest had been doing the mannerisms, you know, and then did them. Very funny.”

But your next film, AFFECTIONATELY YOURS was sort of a dud.

“A real dud. I hate it. The children like it.”

Then LYDIA for Korda, but that was made here, wasn’t it?

“That was made here. I love that film.”

FOREVER AND A DAY

“I only did one scene in that.”

Yes, the first World War episode.

“We gave our services for some reason* or another, all the British actors.”

(ED NOTE: In gratitude for American contributions to British War Relief. U.S. profits went to National Foundation Infantile Paralysis and American Red Cross.)

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